No One Knows (part twelve)

 "Good evening Mr Camper, I would like some advice on how to witness to family members who I know are not going to want to hear this and ummm..." (caller to radio program.)

"Well, you are speaking for all of us. We all have that problem because family members, if they know that we've become really concerned about May 21, about judgement day. They don't want to talk about it. They will walk out of the room and you have to get accustomed to that. The subject matter is too heavy for them. And they just can't face it." Harold Camping/Wheats and Tares/Amazon Prime

And then immediately the video goes into the next clip with people on the street trying to warn people about what is coming.

In his comment to this caller, did you hear any advice to her about her question?

No. I didn't either. Suppose that were you in his shoes and you really believed judgment was coming that day, and someone asked you what you would advise the person to say to your friends and family. What would you say?

We could certainly start it off with that. Because as in Noah's day, people did not want to hear him preaching either that they had better get into the ark. And they didn't and God did do as he promised. But that was then. 

If Camping really believed what he was preaching in those days, what should he have said in addition to what he did?

Maybe, to not give up trying. Perhaps asking God to give her the right words to say to her family, and friends? To ask God for wisdom? To love them no matter what they say or do when they confront them with these things?

But I think most of all, he should have told her to be on her knees praying God's mercy for her loved ones that He would get to their hearts because only God can do that.

Did he say any of those kinds of things to her?

We don't know? Maybe he did. But the video does not give us any more information about that conversation at this point. And it should have, if he did. And if he didn't, why not. It seems like an important part that was left out to me.

In the next clip, people who believe in Harold Camping's message, are on the streets again. And it gets to our pregnant lady that is then shown walking and talking with her two children and another lady who is passing out pamphlets.

She says to the lady, "I have decided to stop talking to my mom, like I know she is against the message, but I was thinking as my mom she would have said, 'Oh, that's nice.' She got so mad. She just came like...her true feelings showed up, and she said (inaudible name) 'this is not going to happen. I am concerned about my grandchildren.'"

The pregnant woman goes on to say that her mother seen her granddaughter only three times in her life, and how she doesn't question her parents and how it had been a really ugly conversation it had been.\

That conversation cuts away to another conversation where she is speaking into the camera about what seems to be saying more about her situation with her mother.

What else is she telling about that? I don't know. That is for the next post. But let me ask this.

What did she really expect? There could be at least two answers.

1) The mother is a born again Christian, who knows what the Bible really says about end times (which we would hope) or...

2) Her mother is a person that isn't a Christian and doesn't know, and doesn't believe anything about judgement day in any way, as those that lived in the day of Noah. 

Which way is it? Maybe we will find out. Or maybe we will find out something different then what I thought of.  But in the meantime, no matter what, I would argue again: What really did the daughter expect? She said she thought her mother would say "Oh, that's nice."

Really? 

 Thanks for coming as I 'pick' apart this Wheat and Tares documentary available on Amazon Prime. Have a blessed day!

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No One Knows (part eleven)

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92? What does that mean?

Well meaning people. People trying to serve God in the ways they know how. But, people that are believing a lie. Disappointment came that day, no doubt. I wonder what other emotions they felt, as they waited for Jesus to roll back the gates of heaven, to take them to there. Only to realize, it wasn't going to happen. Not that day, anyway.

Oh, it will. Jesus will come back. Some day when we least expect it. Because that is what the bible says. In the twinkling of an eye. And not when any man gives the date. Because no one no the day or the hour. And that-we do know.

We can take that for fact. Because unlike what Harold Camping had said, or any other man has proclaimed through the ages, not, the angels in heaven, not even the Son of man knows the time. Only his Father in heaven knows when it will happen.

Why doesn't Jesus know? Hard to say. Because we aren't God. Are we? 

Today, and before I go on with the points I wanted to make about Harold Camping, and the group of people that were speculating over the judgement day, I had backed up a bit on the video and heard a comment by the teenager that he had made. He had been building some type of shed. They (he and his stepfather I assume, Mike) didn't really explain what that is about, that I could see, but in doing so, they were talking and, even though  Mike himself did not believe it was going to be needed because the son was not going to survive after the 21st so why was he helping to build it?. Maybe it was a way to be able to just have a conversation about what was going to happen that day coming up. Maybe to influence him. Or maybe just to spend some time with him while he could. He had sort of explained it that it was because he wouldn't give up on the boy. The son said he had known him since he was five and they had a good relationship.  But, they are discussing this situation and here is a comment that the son made which leaves me wondering even more what these people had been taught because the video doesn't really explain that. So after he talked that bit about his relationship with Mike, he said, 

"I don't know about Mike. (talking to the camera) I don't know how he got into it." I mean that's the way he sees it and I get that's the way he see's it, but the way he was talking too, is that anyone that is born past 92 or something wasn't going to make it into heaven for some reason. I don't know. I wasn't reading that but he's got some pretty crazy views on who is going to make it and who doesn't."

Huh?

The video then goes back to the lady on the street corner who was talking about her divorce. And I can't figure out what the son was saying there and what it had to do with the next segment of her divorce, if anything.

What was that about the number 92? What did the age of 92 have to do with anyone going to heaven or not? And, how did he come to the information that he believes has about it?

One of these problems that I see in this video, is that some of the things said by people do not explain exactly what they mean, and are therefore confusing. So I wonder if things were cut out for a reason and meant to be that way. 

But isn't that what the devil wants for us. To not only believe a lie. But for us to only get half the story, be it the truth or lies and then throw in some confusion and we are just supposed to blindly follow him. Because really, if we get the whole lie, we might begin to see how ridiculous something is, and seek out what really is the truth.

And believe me, this video has already proved to us, there is a lot of that in it. Half truths, and total lies.

 I pray that I have not confused you with what I have said in this post. I do not intend to do that at all. Because sometimes, I have to admit-I get confused myself.

Well, I didn't get to the other things that I had planned for today. But next time, I hope to discuss Camping's advice to that caller. 

In the meantime Friends, don't fall for just anything a man who is trying to teach you the bible-says without first backing/studying it up for yourself. And that includes me. I don't want to mislead anyone, and I try hard not to.

Until next post, take care and be blessed! Jesus loves you!

No One Knows (part ten)

 

The next clip in the video 'Wheat and Tares", a woman is on a street corner arguing with a man who is an atheist and they aren't changing each others minds.

Finally, she gives up with the argument, because she knows neither of them are getting anywhere. And that was a good thing that she did  because as we know, arguing with someone that refuses to believe, is futile. 

But when the day of judgement came and went without so much as an inkling of Christs return, it showed this man that he was right and she was wrong. If ever there could be a tiny bit of hesitation in his mind, there will probably never be another one just because of a fallacy that some one was trying to share with him, the second coming of Christ that just as he knew, was not going to happen. And of course, it didn't. . 

But what about those people who were friends or loved ones that were outside of this great wisdom of what was to happen on May 21, 2011? Those that did not believe. Did they think that these people were crazy?

Did some worry about what would happen with them?

The son of one family was concerned about his mother and her husband. H worried that they would commit suicide. And though he didn't say it, he might have worried that if she tried to commit suicide and failed, would she ever be normal again. And even thought they might have to be in a mental institution.

And so, he said he was going to stick around that weekend of the so called rapture and be on suicide watch. And they didn't even know it.

What an awful thing for a young man to go through. They had no clue to what they were putting him through. And though they weren't trying to hurt him intentionally, they were.

But then there is the other side of this. What about his mother that believed that she had given him all of the information he needed or wanted, and he wasn't accepting it. What would happen to him? Would he be left behind. Or worse? She said, she just had to trust God, but realistically how much did she fear that he was going to be left behind because of his unbelief? 

Did she feel guilty that she couldn't get him to believe, change his mind, or act in the right way about the whole thing? 

So what about these two situations? What happened after May 21, 2011? Did believers get scoffed at by the unbelievers? What were the reactions of the mother and her husband? Did they attempt or even succeed at committing suicide? And how about the others in the video?

How did the events of May 21, 2011 play out? But how, because we know that the rapture did not happen.

That will eventually come out on these videos, and will be interesting. Although, I doubt it was a very happy time in the lives of those that expected quite a different outcome. 

Next post: What advice did Harold Camping give a woman caller about how to witness to family members who she knows isn't going to want to hear what she says. And a conversation between a group of Camping followers, that speculate about judgement day. 

For complete video go to: amazon.com : wheat and tares documentary

Thanks for coming by today, Friends. Have a blessed day!

No One Knows (part nine)

 The Woman and Her Children. What Did She Think Might Happen to Her Daughter and Her Unborn Baby When She Would be Raptured to Heaven on May 21, 2021?

"Its funny, me and my husband talk about,,,imagine about people that are nine months pregnant on May 21or people that gave birth right before and I would think about it and I would be nervous for them. I would think like I am glad that won't be me. And then lo and behold, I am there."  (See Wheat and Tares/Amazon Prime)

Due to medical issues, this lady did not think she could conceive. But she did and so it made her wonder what God was up to. Is God setting this all up? (Not sure what she meant by that exactly.) Did he give them these children in order to save them, because its in the end times and he is saving the most people ever?

She says she looks at everything and how God set everything up in their lives and of her daughter she says she sings hymns and talks about God. And then she says that she knows that doesn't really mean anything because that is the outward appearance. But then she says that whatever plan God has for her, (daughter) she has to be content in that. She says she knows she is better with Him, then with them. (her parents, I assume)

Then they are sitting at the table getting ready to eat and her husband prays that God will apply this message to her heart and that she can be saved, as well as their baby boy.

After that, mom goes on to explain to the little girl that God is coming back and they are going to see Him. Mom seems worried, or at least concerned about it, it seems to me. But that is just my own opinion in watching this. 

They aren't real sure which it is going to be. Maybe the children will go and be with them, maybe they won't. (again, my opinion)

Is she worried that her children may not go to heaven with them. That these last few days may be the last few days she will spend with them.

I don't know. But their conversation about that, ends there. Maybe, we will pick it up again later in the video. If so, I will let you know. Or be sure you see it for yourselves, if you choose to at:   Watch Wheat and Tares | Prime Video

My own belief though is that while we can see that Harold Camping is off base on at least some of what he believes the bible says, we do know that God is a loving God and could he really have us believe that babies not yet born, babies that are not yet talking, or even small children too young to know Him, would be taboo in heaven, and not allowed to be there with him. 

In most everything we do from the crib to adult and as we age, we learn things. How to do things, how to live, how to love and how we come to know Jesus. How can a tiny baby know to have a Savior? They can't. That is one thing they can learn as they grow. And so there is that question again. Where will he go, if he dies when he is tiny or as a small child, as Camping claims? I think that is crazy to think he won't go to heaven.

I don't know about you. But I am with David of the bible. He went to be with his son who could not come to him, and so for those that have lost a child before the age that they can understand their need for a Savior, we can one day go to them, if we  too, know Jesus. 

No One Knows (part eight)

What Happens to Children When They Die? Do they need a Savior?

"Do you believe God revealed this to you? (caller on Family Talk Radio program)

"Yes, God has given this to us, not just to me. Our gospel is not very acceptable to most people who claim to be Christians, or are interested. They don't like what we teach, because we are so focused on .the Bible." (Harold Camping/Wheat and Tares/Amazon)

My question is: What bible are you focused on? (my notes)

"I wanted to know, what does scripture say about infants being raptured?" (caller)

"The bible emphasizes this, The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray when they be born, speaking lies. Their poison is as the poison of a serpent.' "Now we are shocked. Beautiful little baby. But we don't know the heart of that tiny little baby. That baby needs a savior just as much as an adult." (Camping)

My notes:

Camping does quote that scripture  correctly as Psalms 58:3

 But where does a baby or small child go when they die too soon? Is there no hope of heaven for him or her? Does their soul just cease to exist? Do they go to hell? 

After all, for a time after birth and until the child cannot understand sin, or even accept what Jesus did on the cross. So where does that leave him or her?

I found a post on another site which I believe is the answer to those questions. I am going to copy it here for you to consider and it is my personal belief. You can also find it at:10. Where Do Infants Go When They Die? 2 Samuel 12 (death of a baby) | Bible.org

Where Do Infants Go When They Die? 2 Samuel 12 (death of a baby)

Background: This was a young child, who suddenly died.

There is a passage of Scripture in the Book of II Samuel which offers each of us great comfort in the death of this little one whose death as an infant may seem untimely,

Then the Lord struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David, so that he was very sick. David therefore inquired of God for the child; and David fasted and went and lay all night on the ground. And the elders of his household stood beside him in order to raise him up from the ground, but he was unwilling and would not eat food with them. The it happened on the seventh day that the child died. And the servants of David were afraid to tell him that the child was dead, for they said, "Behold, while the child was still alive, we spoke to him and he did not listen to our voice. How then can we tell him that the child is dead, since he might do himself harm!" But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David perceived that the child was dead; so David said to his servants, "Is the child dead?" And they said, "he is dead." So David arose from the ground, washed, anointed himself, and changed his clothes; and he came into the house of the Lord and worshiped. Then he came to his own house, and when he requested, they set food before him and he ate. Then his servants said to him, What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food." And he said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, 'Who knows, the Lord may be gracious to me, that the child may live.' But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will n0t return to me." (II Samuel 12:15-23).

We know the background to the death of this child all too well. David sinned by committing adultry with Bathsheba and then seeking to cover it up by the murder of her husband, Uriah. God rebuked David for his sin through Nathan the prophet. As a consequence of David's sin with Bathsheba, the child of their illicit union was stricken with a serious illness. Throughout this period of illness, David fasted and prayed, beseeching God to save the life of the child.

God did not choose to restore the health of the child and it died. David's servants were very reluctant to tell him of the child's death. They feared that his grief might be to great and he might do himself harm. They did not have to tell David, because he sensed that the child had died. When asked about it directly, they could not deny it.

The servants were shocked by what happened next. David ceased his mourning and fasting and began to go about life normally. David's response to the child's death was the reverse of what they had expected. When they could not restrain themselves any longer, they asked him pointedly, "Why you responded this way?" David's response is found in verses 22 and 23. It is here that we can find the faith and hope to go on living after the death of the child.

1. David Was Confident His Child Was in Heaven.

While the child was still alive, David was right to beseech God for mercy and healing. But once the child was dead, David could accept this as the will of God,

knowing that his child was in heaven. His statement, "I shall go to him, but he will not return to me," indicated that he knew he could not bring the child back, so fasting and prayer for the child was no longer appropriate. When he spoke of going to be with the child, he gives evidence to his faith that the child still lives, but now in heaven. OF greatest comfort to David was the knowledge that while his sins of adultry and murder, were the cause of the child's death, this in no way changed the fact that the child was in heaven.

Why can David be so certain that his child is now in heaven? The answer is not given in this passage. It is perhaps most clearly explained in Romans chapter 5. There, Paul teaches us that it was Adam's sin which made each of us sinful by nature. But he also taught that the death of Jesus Christ has reverses the consequences of Adam's sin, allowing God to give eternal life to all who are "inChrist." By sinning against God, we identify with Adam, and demonstrate that we are worthy of God's judgment and death. By trusting in Christ, we are forgiven of our sins and given the righteousness which leads to eternal life. Infants, by virtue of being born of man and therefore are the descendants of Adam, and consequently must face physical death. But because they have not willfully resisted and rejected the revealed word of God, the death of Christ covers their sins and we can thus be assured that they will go to heaven.

2. David was assured that he would go to heaven, to be with his child.

The answer to this is found in the 51st Psalm. There we read that David confessed his sin to God and sought His forgiveness. If David can be assured of God's forgiveness for the sins of adultery and murder, surely you and I can be assured of forgiveness as well.

Conclusion

There is great comfort for us in this account of David's sin, and of his hope in the death of his child when we consider the death of this little one. We may,

like David, be assured that this child is in heaven, with the Lord. Our confidence in this rests in the work of Christ on the cross of Calvary.

For us who remain and who are adults, the forgiveness of sins and the hope of heaven is not automatic. We must, like David, confess our sins and trust in God's forgiveness. No matter how great our sins, God will forgive and we may be assured of heaven.

There is no question as to where this child is this very moment. The only question is whether we will claim the forgiveness of God in Christ and thus be assured of heaven as well.

My notes: Hope. Comfort. Thankfulness. Indeed. We can have all these and more, for not only us who are born of God, but also those that are taken way before their time. Those that can not come to us, but we can eventually go to them. What a joyful reunion that will be!

But it looks to me as if Camping's bible studies did not go any further than Psalm 58:3 on this subject. Of course, I have not gotten too far in this video, so maybe we will discover more about that at a later time.

So what is right? What is wrong? You decide which way is right in your own mind.

However, where did that leave this young pregnant mother with her own children and the teachings about their rapture as according to the 'gospel according to Harold Camping."?

That will be up next time. Until then, thanks for coming by and may God bless!

No One Knows (part seven)

 

"They do not understand that every word in the original languages of Hebrew in the Old Testament  and the Greek in the New Testament was dictated by the lips of God."  (Harold Camping: Wheats and Tares/Amazon Prime)

The problem with that statement, is the fact that it does not line up with what he said was going to happen May 21, 2011 and in connection to Mark 13:32. (I hope that makes sense) Ok so maybe what I am trying to say, is that it just plain does not make any sense.

If he truly believed that "...every word was dictated by the lips of God" then how could he make a prediction about the end of the world not only once but three times? Because clearly, he was saying something different then what God had said about the end of the world. So what? He didn't believe God was dictating his word correctly but Camping was? That statement above does not go with his own teaching.

However, he did say later that God had given him the revelation about the end of the world. But more on that, when it comes up in the video.

Consider this:  The grass withers, and the flower fades but the word of God stands forever. Isaiah 40:8

And what about this?  I testify that any man that hears the prophecy of this book, if any man adds to them, God shall add to him the plagues written in this book. And if any man takes away from the words of this book of prophesy, God shall away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things that are written in this book. Revelation 22:18-19

And so along with the fact that God's word is forever and does not change, comes some pretty dire warnings that we are not to add to or take away from what he tells us in it. 

If we do that, then the word of God is no longer his. It becomes the word of someone that has added to or taken away from it. 

So where did that leave Harold Camping? He added to it and really essentially took away from it, and maybe even calling God a liar? It seems to me, he did all three, but I am not God, and that is only my conclusion. He at least added to it, I think.

May 21, 2011 came and went and nothing happened as he claimed it would. He does admit later that he was wrong and that finally he realized that yes, no one knows the day or the hour. Did God keep his own promise that he would do those things in Revelation 22 for misleading people? 

I cannot say, but he did go through some difficult days, had some health problems and died a couple years later. Was that a result of his teachings? God keeps his word, we know that.

But then he was in his 90s, so maybe it was just his time, and he could have died anyway, even if he had not tried to alter God's word. 

Only goes knows.

When we get to the parts of the video that is after May 21, 2011 perhaps we will get more insight on the aftermath of what happened. 

In the meantime, in the next post, I will be looking into what he had said about babies needing a Savior. What did he mean by that? Please come back or feel free to take a look at Wheat and Tares, for yourself. It is quite interesting because while he does not seem to be a regular cult leader as most that we have heard of, his teaching did mislead a lot of people that did not take the word of God seriously enough to "really study" it as he himself had said. And evidentially, neither did he.

Thanks for coming, Friends. Have a blessed day!

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No One Knows (part six)

 Harold Camping's beliefs about the end of the world. (continued)

If you know anything about God's Word, you can't go far into watching this video (Wheat and Tares/Amazon Prime), without seeing some serious fallacies. Please understand I am not a bible scholar but I have been in church, and studying the bible for much of my 60 plus years. So I do know something. And the more of this I see, the less I like it.

The next item of interest I find, is with a  lady on the street corner, talking to a young couple about what was coming on May 21. She said: "My advice to you is to be in  the bible and praying for mercy."

This all well and good. But what if this couple has not asked God's forgiveness for their sins? There are many people in this day and age that have not been taught that and have no idea that they need to do this before they do face judgment

Now perhaps she did and it was cut out of this video. However, if you are making a video to convince people they need to be ready for Jesus to come back, you would certainly want to let everyone that may not know how to be saved on it and what happens if they do not confess their sins.

Just my own observation here, but I would.

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That's all for today. The next time I post, Harold Camping made a statement out babies needing a Savior. What was that all about?

And the young pregnant mother who seems unsure her two small children would be able to go with them when Jesus comes back.

What about babies that have died over the centuries. Did they need a Savior before they passed? What does the bible say about them, if anything.

Thanks for coming by. Have a blessed day?

it will be about a couple that have some things to say about their small children. It seems confusing to me about whether they believe these children will be in heaven with them when Jesus comes back. 

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